Site Discussion

With the great deal of affection I have for this game, I've decided that, if maintaining the Miraheze site is a procedure that requires DIY elements, I might as well be the one to get things going.

Thus, I am initiating a Discussion page in the hopes that we can start a wheel turning that will become an active procedure of interaction with each other and - possibly - the individuals who submit, and have submitted, storylines and modules for publication in the first place, and also Steve Kenson and Dan Houser, the gentlemen who inspired the game itself and the site we now involve ourselves in sustaining.

In addition to general ongoing dialogues, my hope is that we can begin differentiating forums for specific discussion purposes, including - big hope - the submission of fan-created adventures and/or characters that may end up populating each others' games, and - who knows? - possibly end up seeing publication in a hard-copy work at some point in future developments.

Right now, my first suggestion for differentiated forums would include a "General Discussion" tab, as well as a "Stark City" one where reactions, suggestions, and who-woulda-thunk-it stories can be traded back and forth. Other forums, of course, will inevitably arise out of continued discussion. Other forums possibly arranged around consideration of the other various supplemental works could be a point of division as well.

One thing I would suggest is that, in line with many other gaming sites' policy, we dispense with real-world political discussion; too much opportunity for offense arising over something that has absolute zero to do with ICONS, along with attracting inappropriately aligned personalities and driving away some good ones. Other than that, I'm very much hoping to see as many of the old site's gang reappearing here as possible, and continuing on our goal of seeing this excellent game given over to the public's hands and seeing what commentary we can make, fun stories we can tell, and adventures we can have.

Black Talon

---

''Hi Black Talon! I don't know if using the wiki as a forum is that efficient, but if anyone wants to do it, go right ahead. Seems there are actual forums for ICONS out there (someone put up links if you have them) and this wiki certainly functions well as a repository of useful games material and other results of such forums, but again: whatever works!''

''As far as leaving out real-world politics, I don't think that was a problem before, so I hope there will be no need to make a rule now.

Blue Lightning

Thank you for resurrecting ICONS page
I'm working on some Marvel and DC conversions that I hope to upload soon. Hopefully we can get some more activity here to keep this resource viable.

Thanks so much for saving it.

Jaysin1414

---

Thanks for contributing!

Blue Lightning

Please Include Dates
''Hi guys, I'm glad everyone's remembering to sign their additions here on discussion pages, but I think it would help in making sense of this page and conversations if you add the date after your name. I'm going to look into ways that may already exist for this to happen automatically, but till then let's try doing that ourselves.''

Blue Lightning 06/14/2019 12:27AM

''AHA! Looks like there is a "Signature button" you can use on the discussion pages that will put in the timestamp also! It's at the top right after the Bold and Italic buttons and before the link button. --Blue Lightning (talk) 09:22, 14 June 2019 (EDT)''

Re: Time Stamps
Time stamps?!? We don't need no stinking time stamps! You're talking like this is an actual forum or something, where people discuss stuff, and points of debate might get brought in -

Okay, yeah, I get the idea. Now to see if we can futz with the signature thing and use it to put funny and/or derisive material on that lets everybody know that, whether we get tagged as geeks and nerds or not, we understand where our influence begins and ends.

Again, hoping that we can keep this game and site active. See everybody on soon. --Black Talon (talk) 15:31, 14 June 2019 (EDT)

Just keepin' stuff going
Been a while since there's been activity of note here, so just popping in to ensure that the site remains ongoing.

With regard to personal circumstances, there's recently been an uptick in terms of resources, so I'm hoping very much to be able to start catching up on the ICONS modules/sourcebooks in the near future. Otherwise, hoping matters are going well for everyone, and also hoping that, at some point, we can get Messers Kenson and/or Houser, etc., to show up in Toronto for a convention or such. Looking forward to more game releases over the remainder of the year, and anticipating 2020's works.

--Black Talon (talk) 10:20, 1 September 2019 (EDT)--

If you click on Recent Changes in the left column, you see anything that's happened here lately, and it seems Fdw3773 and Doc Lemming have continued adding content.

So which conventions are in Toronto? --Blue Lightning (talk) 01:35, 2 September 2019 (EDT)

New additions/Any requests?
I've recently added some character conversions in recent weeks: Mystery Inc. (Scooby Doo and the gang) along with starting on the Silverhawks. Although I've retired my ICONS campaign, I plan to still periodically do some character write-ups here and there from various animated series within and not too far beyond the superhero genre.

Are there any requests out there? G.I. Joe? Ghostbusters? Transformers? The Galaxy Rangers? --Fdw3773 (talk) 12:21, 1 February 2020 (EST)

'''New additions/Any requests? cont.'''

Fdw3773, thank you for the new inputs. Honestly, if I was to ask for anything in this regard, it'd be something more along the lines of the classic Image comics characters from the early '90s - WildC.A.T.s, CyberForce, Youngblood, Brigade and so forth. Those comics, and characters, seem to best encapsulate what I see ICONS going for as a game: the Timmiverse cartoon series that ran the razor's edge between childhood fun and joy in superhero action and adult consideration of power relating to power, power in conflict with power and speaking truth to power (season three of Justice League Unlimited as a template example). Certainly, no one is ever going to accuse the Jim Lee/Brandon Choi, Marc Silvestri/Eric Silvestri, Rob Liefeld era comics of hitting sustained notes such as Justice League Unlimited, but I still do take enormous enjoyment out of looking those series over today, especially such works as the WildC.A.T.s/CyberForce team-up work of Killer Instinct, and the four-issue intro of Brigade, which struck me as so straight-forward and to-the-point in terms of conflict that the scenario would, in fact, have been a damn good role-playing game situation construct. I believe that these characters, and the Image universe as a whole, serve as good opportunities for translation to ICONS stats and provide examples of how characters can ride the lines of effective comics-based story-telling and RPGing opportunities.

--Black Talon (talk) 19:50, 2 February 2020 (EST)

'''New additions/Any requests? cont., and cont. again'''

Fdw3773, one more thing to consider, perhaps, as I waste time before starting work. One additional series - that I've spent literal hours translating into ICONS terms - are the cast and crew from Invincible, which struck me pretty much from the get-go as a storyline that Robert Kirkman might well have utilized ICONS as an inspiration force. Any ideas on these particular characters? One point that I think would make things rather interesting is tracking Mark Grayson's evolution in terms of not just Abilities, but Powers, Power levels, Qualities and Specialties as well. Most of the other characters - Oliver notwithstanding, of course - are pretty much plug-and-play (although Debbie Grayson's loss and search for a new path in life after Nolan's...withdrawal, shall we say...could figure in as well). With a bit of time and effort, I certainly could actualize the concepts above, but wondering if you've got any ideas with regard to this landmark series.

--Black Talon (talk) 08:46, 12 February 2020 (EST)

Re: Invincible

Black Talon, while I've heard of Invincible and read some great articles about it, I really haven't collected superhero comics in over a decade due to various reasons (e.g. changing interests, reboot of a given comic universe fatigue, etc.). Any character and scenario ideas that I would generate for Invincible would be a huge disservice to you.

--Fdw3773 (talk) 12:21, 17 February 2020 (EST)

Re: Invincible, cont.

Well then! Thank you for the subject update; such being clear, I guess I'll take it upon meself to start doing character translations.

Having given it a bit of thought since the last post, one point that does come to mind, and makes Invincible an even better match for ICONS, is that many of the major individuals, while they don't alter physically to a notable degree, do change in terms of character, meaning Qualities. A prime example of which being Nolan "Omni-Man" Grayson, who, while he starts off being a duplicitous supposedly here-to-save-Truth-Justice-and-the-American-Way Paragon, ends up being revealed at the end of year one as a traitorous murderer with the goal of prepping the Earth for Viltrum Empire-takeover. By year three, his motives/Qualities have undergone a complete turnaround.

Although I'd really have to set some time aside to do a full examination of Mark "Invincible" Grayson from year one to year twelve, I'd set him out with something like this in issue #1:

PROWESS: 3 (at best, probably a 2 would be better)

COORDINATION: 3

STRENGTH: 8

INTELLECT: 3

AWARENESS: 3

WILLPOWER: 3 (maybe a 4, but only at the very end of year one)

Powers would be pretty much Flight 4 (again, probably) and Invulnerability 7. Anything else, as stated, I'm going to have to put some serious thought into before I post them in the correct forum.

So, any other people who might want to throw in some character conversions, go ahead. When I get the opportunity to start taking the Invincible series seriously from the ICONS perspective, I'll put the stats in the proper forum

--Black Talon (talk) 21:58, 17 February 2020 (EST)

Brigade: Quick Interpretation
Seguing from some previous points, one thing I'd mention is that Rob Liefeld's Brigade has always held a special place in my heart - possibly under the heading of "Guilty Pleasures" - especially the introductory four-issue series, which, as mentioned previously, struck me as a total, straight-out-of-the-box, no-guff, no-nonsense, let's-get-right-to-it superhero RPG scenario. The team members had only a modicum of character development over the course of the start-up series, with with John "Battlestone" Stone the only one who could be indicted with a serious charge of having characteristics defined over the course of the conflict the team faced; with the exception of Prince Genocide himself, who was revealed as a self-important coward that covered his weakness with tough talk and fighting to the finish...at least until he was up against an opponent who might actually beat him. Then it was time to cheat, and cheat large.

I would like to get around to statting out the Brigade team - along with, obviously, Invincible and crew, as well as the WildC.A.T.s, CyberForce and Youngblood - but right now, I'll stick with Battlestone, who was a pretty much straight-up Powerhouse-type.

PROWESS: 5

COORDINATION: 4

STRENGTH: 8

INTELLECT: 4

AWARENESS: 4

WILLPOWER: 5

Powers: Invulnerabilty 7

Origin: Birthright

This strike the gang, who might be familiar with the series, as near the mark? Chime in with your own if you so wish.

--Black Talon (talk) 20:44, 26 February 2020 (EST)

Brigade: Quick Interpretation, cont.

One more point, that I should have noted at the beginning: I will add in Extras, Stunts, Qualities and so forth for Battlestone (and probably should for Invincible, as well) after I've had a chance to cross-reference with the IAE book and see what's most appropriate. A four-issue introduction ain't much space to build an entire character on, but what's present will be, hopefully, sufficient.

--Black Talon (talk) 09:24, 28 February 2020 (EST)

"Soon I Will Be Invincible" book/character conversion
Sigh. As usual, just futzing around with various concepts. I had - a number of years ago - proposed on the M&M boards about having a SIWBI sourcebook; this met with some approval, but I do believe that ICONS, out of all the systems I'm familiar with (certainly not all available) would be the one best suited to fit the novel's general set-up and the fact that the story is driven by character study and interaction, not plot. I would, very quickly, assign Doctor Impossible something like the following, as far as raw Abilities and Powers are concerned:

PROWESS: 4

COORDINATION: 5

STRENGTH: 7

INTELLECT: 8 (possibly a 9, but that would be up, I think, to some discussion)

AWARENESS: 4 (being generous)

WILLPOWER: 4 (you've got to give the guy some stick-it-out capability, if nothing else)

Powers: Invulnerability 4 (gunfire, especially high-powered weapons, can hurt and/or inconvenience him, if not kill)

Again, working out Extras, Stunts and Qualities would likely take a bit of research, but certainly doable. Anyone else familiar with this story, and think it would be a good ICONS conversion?

--Black Talon (talk) 15:12, 7 March 2020 (EST)

Products page update
Had a brief look at this - checking on some of the older modules and resources I still want to pick up - and it struck me that the items, as listed, are considerably out of date. There's Origins, Rogues, and ICONS Presents, just to indicate some of the hardcopy works that could be listed, and that's not even considering what new modules and settings, as well as other non-Ad Infinitum work that might be available through DriveThru RPG. Any plans on doing a bit of a clean-up/update on this aspect, just so we've got a clear list as to what's available currently?

--Black Talon (talk) 13:37, 19 March 2020 (EDT)

Well, it's a wiki, so anyone who has both the time and the inclination is welcome to do it! As I'm not currently playing it's been hard to remember even to check in here very often. I think I added a couple of things as they came out, but when we have DriveThru search available, it just didn't seem as important a service to list things here and it might have been originally. And still not sure how many people actually see this.

That said, feel free to update!

--Blue Lightning (talk) 18:36, 25 March 2020 (EDT)

Thank you for providing the notes, Blue Lightning. It may mark me as being a bit weird, but I generally get on to this page a couple of times a day to see if there's been any significant activity; as stated, I have a great liking for this game concept, the game engine, and many of the works released as supplements - Ad Infinitum-copyright or not. Superhero games, as stated previously, have been major hit-and-miss propositions, from my point of view, and the sheer love-of-genre that powered the creation of this game in the first place is something that resonates with me.

Such being stated, I suppose I will take up the chain tied to to the ship's forecastle and drag the thing up out of the water for some dry-dock service. It'll be a while before I can take the time and attention to do so - real-life work and all that - but come Easter or thereabouts, I would like to start revamping the Products page, probably dividing into a) Ad Infinitum books b) third-party publishers c) hardcopy versus pure digital. Yeah, it'll probably take a while - and will likely engage more computer-code-manipulation skill than I can reasonably command at this point - but I'd like to see the site maintaining at least something vaguely resembling current market availability.  So, Blue Lightning, I'll probably be in touch during the next while, attempting to suss out how to make such changes without accessing the NORAD systems and bringing things to an unexpected DefCon 2 - yeah, the Time cover would have me doing the big "Who wouldda thunk it?" shrug with the story headline, "Planetary Disaster Averted When Janitor Pulls Plug" or something like that. Otherwise, hoping that the game is being enjoyed by a growing segment of the population out there, and will be coming back soon.

--Black Talon (talk) 20:40, 25 March 2020 (EDT)

I think the page is long enough as is, and will be longer as you add more "official" products to it, so I'd suggest a separate page for third-party products.

Blue Lightning (talk) 00:49, 31 March 2020 (EDT)

Good point! Dividing up into separate pages in such a fashion would, in fact, present a serious advantage that DriveThru simply doesn't have - being able to make a straight-out choice between looking at Ad Infinitum and other companies' modules/resources could end up saving potential gamers a load of time that would otherwise be spent scrolling through works while going "No...no...no..."

Every day that passes presents more evidence that the person-to-person RPG is something that serves a huge benefit as both social equalizer and potential key-opener for the imagination. Whatever small steps that might be taken to keep Mr. Kenson and Mr. Houser's creation moving on and upward, I'll certainly give my pause for the cause.

--Black Talon (talk) 19:32, 31 March 2020 (EDT)

Have been logged out - cannot log back in.
This is Black Talon. The changes noted on the main page have logged me out; despite attempting to follow the directions indicated, I have been unable to clear the "browser cache", being not quite sure what this is or how to access it. I - and I would imagine several others - would appreciate having a clear, step-by-step guide for the uninitiated as to how to solve this problem. Thank you.

--50.101.192.81 13:42, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

This is Blue Lightning. Apparently the fix of deleting all your cookies is not working for everyone and you've hit on a decent fix for us right now. Adding "This is name" to the beginning of any discussion contributions will do for now, and of course anyone adding a page can put their name on it too. Most of the activity in the last 6 months seems to be discussion right here anyway.

I believe they will eventually get an acceptable fix in but it's only about 48 hours into the problem so I'd say give them time to work it out. It is after all a free service so... 2604:2000:2B8C:AF00:A803:1798:5B3D:C1B 15:31, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

This is Black Talon. Blue Lightning, thank you very much for passing this along; knowing that others are caught in the same La Brea virtual tar-pit gives at least some indication I'm not flat-out stupid. Regarding doing the introductory "I am [Fill in fake superhero name from Marvel movies here]," would certainly do it - we could also just put in our signatures manually at the conclusion of a post, and throw in the time-stamp afterward. In any event, we've certainly got some options available; we'll just have to wait that while - however long that might turn out to be - before we can see our identities at the top-right of the screen on the Main Page again. Once more, Blue Lightning, all thanks for having kept this site going. As a serious ICONS fan, I'd feel a little deprived without this option available, as it seems to be just about the only place for interested and dedicated individuals to throw out opinions, after Green Ronin tossed their ICONS forum into the recycle bin.

Hoping we can get the population logged back in as soon as reasonably possible. All best till then, and hope to see others on soon.

Black Talon --50.101.192.81 22:19, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

Just found another workaround: logged in with another browser, apparently they don't all use the same cookies. So at least with Opera it worked. Blue Lightning (talk) 22:25, 14 April 2020 (EDT)

Very good to know. Just wondering what the procedure was for that - I can make a link here through Google Chrome, but have no idea to enact this cookie-clearing procedure you've mentioned. If a guide could be provided, this would be much appreciated.

Black Talon --50.101.192.81 20:01, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

Deleting all cookies is usually pretty easy and you can google how to do that with your browser. However cookies are very useful for other sites so it's usually quite annoying to clear them all because of a problem on one site because then on all other sites you regulary visit you now have to log in again and they probably will no longer "remember" where you were on those sites last time.

So...

Deleting only specific cookies is ideal, and I just did this on Chrome and it worked for me.

Put chrome://settings/siteData in your location bar

On the page that comes up put miraheze in the search box

Delete all cookies that come up

Try logging on to Miraheze

Let me know if it works. Oh and btw, as mentioned above, simply using another browser might work. I used Opera and logged in fine.

Blue Lightning (talk) 22:43, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

Have followed the procedure listed above; there's still been no results as far as log-in is concerned. I don't know how many others may be in this situation - you, Blue Lightning, have obviously managed to overcome the barrier - but, until Miraheze or some other organization in authority take corrective steps, I'm considering the current circumstance to be pretty much a permanent arrangement. While I'd certainly like to be able to just hit the signature key as an official sign-off rather than doing it manually, I - and, I think, we - will make do with a few detours. Hoping the current situation eases as quickly as reasonably possible and that, if possible, Steven Kenson, Dan Houser et al make it on here for some commentary.

Black Talon --50.101.192.81 17:26, 19 April 2020 (EDT)

Sorry it's still not working for you Black Talon, have you deleted just the miraheze cookies or all cookies? Have you tried using a different browser? (If you do, don't use Opera as I mentioned above, it's not secure anymore I just heard, try Firefox or Vivaldi.) If you can't download another browser have you tried opening an incognito / private / (whatever it may be called on your browser) window and log in with that?

In all of those suggestions above I think you'd first need to close any tab that had miraheze open before you perform the suggestion.

If you happen to have another device on the shelf somewhere, you can try that too.

This is being discussed at at https://meta.miraheze.org/m/4FU and there are some very upset people, but this is a free service and we can't expect perfection for years on end. That said, one reason I chose Miraheze is that they use a standard version of mediawiki (unlike WikiSpaces did) and therefore if I needed to export it and host it elsewhere it wouldn't need the extensive rebuilding I had to do last time.

Blue Lightning (talk) 21:28, 19 April 2020 (EDT)

I hope we haven't lost Black Talon permanently over the login issue! On anyone else for that matter. :-(

Blue Lightning (talk) 14:40, 18 May 2020 (EDT)

Well, not lost permanently - I still check in here on a fairly frequent basis - but I will admit that my interest level has diminished somewhat since the whole You've-been-booted-out-and-at-least-according-to-current-protocols-you're-never-getting-back-in arrangement. Nevertheless, I still do very much want this game to continue expanding, and, when the current horrorshow has been hopefully reduced somewhat, I would like to do a products-release page organized by publishing house. I am very grateful to Miraheze for providing what is an essentially free site, but am also hoping that the day will come where I don't have to type the name in manually, and am still a recognized member of the clique here.

Best,

Black Talon --70.27.137.25 12:46, 25 May 2020 (EDT)

Well please do try downloading a different browser (perhaps Firefox, Vivaldi, but not Opera) if you're up for that. Seems to work.

Blue Lightning (talk) 15:58, 25 May 2020 (EDT)

Long overdue additions
I finally completed some long overdue additions to this fan-site, which are standardized write-ups for an alien invader, dragon, fire demon, and kaiju, which are common tropes in the superhero genre involving overlords and supernatural aligned villains. --Fdw3773 (talk) 19:51, 28 May 2020 (EDT)

I completed another long overdue revision of the Eliminators from the Champions Universe, who are a team of trigger-happy but aiming-challenged alien hunters that's loosely inspired by the original Ghostbusters team. Of note is that I created better images to illustrate the characters and made them a little more diverse by renaming Bruiser's civilian name as Me'Shell Lister (original name was Jud Hogan) and making him African American, inspired by the character Me'Shell from the film Dodgeball, Trekkie as Latino (renamed Silvia Vasquez), and Gizmo as Asian (renamed Dwight Aoki). I've kept Slick (Stan Sneiderwind) and Specs (Maxwell Sanders) basically the same, inspired by Ben Stiller's character from Dodgeball and Specs as staying the typical middle-aged xenophobe scientist portrayed in various sci-fi/horror films. --Fdw3773 (talk) 05:59, 18 June 2021 (EDT)

Golden Age Greats from Public Domain....WOW!
I haven't visited this forum in a long while but when I saw the list of recently added Golden Age heroes from the public domain I was amazed! I had only heard of a few of them when they had appeared in a FemForce issue or two since AC Comics used to incorporate public domain characters. The majority was new to me and it was wonderful reading about these seemingly forgotten characters from the Golden Age of comics.

Kudos to ICONS therealtony for making this happen and posting them in this forum!!! --Fdw3773 (talk) 14:53, 3 October 2020 (EDT)

Whew!
Boy, that was scary! Clicked on the site and saw the "Closed due to inactivity" banner, and wondered what in the heck was going on - I threw in that bit about picking up ICONS: Menagerie just a couple of days ago.

Hoping it was nothing more than an oversight or miscue by the Miraheze administration; for my part, I'll try to submit a post, at the very least, on a monthly basis so we can avoid this kind of situation again. To Blue Lightning: Presuming it was your intervention that restored matters back to a normalized state - Thank you. My enjoyment of the ICONS system, and desire to see it maintained and expanded, is real and this site is something that allows the community here to communicate in some stable fashion, and hoping that we can continue to see its healthy growth.

Also, finally managed to sign back in (Yay!) so I can at last use that signature thing again.

--Black Talon (talk) 01:26, 17 November 2020 (EST)

Yay for the return of your sign-in ability! No, I didn't fix whatever was going on with the inactivity banner and didn't happen to login in time to see it, but I did see on the Miraheze discord that they were having technical difficulties so I bet that was part of it. OTOH maybe fixing whatever was going wrong also fixed your sign-in trouble.

BTW There is LOTS of activity on the ICONS Facebook page, if anyone here is also there please encourage the many producers of great character writeups to post them here where GMs and other interested parties can look them up easily. This is an archive we can back up, I don't think we have that with Facebook, RPG.net, or any other forum I can think of at the moment where folks are posting their work.

--Blue Lightning (talk) 02:46, 17 November 2020 (EST)

Blue Lightning, thank you for the update. With regard to the ICONS Facebook page, while I'm very gratified that the game has a significant presence in this venue, and that it would be a wonderful lifeblood injection having the characters brought over here, it's something I'm afraid I can do nothing to assist with: I never have been, am not, and probably never will be on Facebook. From the moment the site went into public activity back in '04, I had a gut-level intuition that there was something congenitally wrong about this. Rather than go into details, I'll simply state that my hopes are that the character write-ups you indicate can be transferred over here through some other methodology. Meanwhile, wonderful to see this site back in operation. Looking forward to seeing more community participation in building up site resources.

--Black Talon (talk) 08:17, 18 November 2020 (EST)

I think I already knew you weren't on Facebook, that was just an open call to those who are. And also for wherever else one sees people posting ICONS character writeups and adaptations.

--Blue Lightning (talk) 15:53, 18 November 2020 (EST)

Has it really been over 30 days since I checked in here? Sorry I missed the start of of your game Black Talon, but glad to know it's happening. Mine has graduated from Danger Room practice to actual missions. Also joined a game on the Facebook ICONS group that hasn't quite started yet.

Now, much as I appreciate your writing this here, and everyone else who chimes in so as to keep this wiki active and not deleted, it's just not the best forum for discussion. "Discussion" on a wiki is really to discuss the entry the discussion is attached to. More importantly, people just plain aren't here to read this, as far as I can tell. Even if there are 20 people a month who use it as a resource for their games, they don't think to read the discussion part of the Main Page. So I think it's only fair to remind you there are actually discussion places out there: there's an ICONS MeWe group if you can't stand Facebook, and frankly it could use the traffic for the same reason we do, a post there keeps the group in the Group Directory so others can find it.

Not discourage the continuing contributions here, but your stuff deserves a chance to be read by more than me and Fdw3773, and also Steve Kenson and Dan Houser deserve to hear your compliments. :-)

--Blue Lightning (talk) 23:29, 5 April 2021 (EDT)

But - but - I kind of like the idea of this wiki being sort of the ICONS "Blue Area of the Moon" or Savage Land, minus a few tyrannosaurs. Sigh. I guess I'll have to...what's the term again...yeah, socialize and try to at least act normal. Having admitted abject defeat, all I'd ask, Blue Lightning, is that you provide a link to the MeWe site you've indicated; my search for such didn't turn up anything that looked relevant. All stupidity aside, as much as I very much value this site, I would like to have interaction with an actual forum that would give the opportunity to bat some stories back and forth, and exchange issue ideas.

Hoping very much to get the chance to pass on "hellos" at the new site, and also promising that this one ain't gonna be abandoned either.

--Black Talon (talk) 00:52, 7 April 2021 (EDT)

Well, again, any activity here helps, but there's more people actually talking over at MeWe, if intermittently. I put the link on the Important Links page. Let me know if it doesn't work. If your search on MeWe didn't turn up our group, well that's what happens when nobody says anything there in a week. :-(

--Blue Lightning (talk) 00:16, 10 April 2021 (EDT)

This is going to be a rather negative note, but after finding the MeWe link on the Links page - and thanks you for the direction - clicking on the link led to a selection of pages that wanted me to list all my contacts for purposes of being forwarded to MeWe for reasons unknown, then indicating that there were no ads on the site - and then indicating that I had to forward my credit card for a sum of $5.00 U.S. per month. In other words, I had to pay so I wouldn't have to pay. I saw that there was an option to join thirty days for free, but this would still have required the submission of a credit card number. While I would certainly enjoy the opportunity to lob ideas back and forth with other ICONS fans, as well as discussing actual game issues, both good and bad, I have no intention of signing on as a paying customer for the privilege of talking virtually. In my opinion, the Internet should be a free forum for the free exchange of ideas; if you want to turn it into a retail situation, fine, but make sure that such payment is for an actual material item and not something that I can do with people in real life with zero cost.

My apologies for turning matters in this direction, but I would far rather put up with pop-up ads for Mountain Dew than forwarding $60.00 U.S. per year for a service which I may or may not end up using on a basis frequent enough to warrant the expenditure. I have already declared my distaste for Facebook; if there are any forums where things are a simple matter of exchanging ideas through text, I'd be happy to hear about it. Otherwise, Blue Mountain, my thanks for the directions, but the MeWe option is leading toward a place I'm simply not willing to go.

--Black Talon (talk) 01:00, 11 April 2021 (EDT)

I found Miraheze because it's free, and the best of the free wiki choices at the time for various reasons. I say this so you understand I never would have sent you to MeWe if there wasn't at least a free option there. I've been there as an owner of three groups since G+ closed, and have never paid a penny.

Yes, like many things, you have an option to pay something to get something extra, so yes they have Premium accounts, and Business accounts, but on MeWe I have always ignored those options and am repeatedly skipping the "free trial" of whatever they're offering.

I have never given MeWe my credit card.

So I'm going to ask you to double check, and if you're sure you MUST pay something now, please either send me a link or a screenshot where it says that so I can check it out myself.

--Blue Lightning (talk) 18:24, 14 April 2021 (EDT)

Blue Lightning - thank you very much for your attention and concern on this. As it turns out, the MeWe account did carry through without further difficulty, but for the life of me, I can't seem to find how to post a message on the boards; there are no links for contributing to discussions, and hitting 'reply' on one of the previous posts leads nowhere.

As a side-point, the ICONS pages, at least the ones I found, seem to be in a bit of a vintage state; the newest post I could find was dated about three years ago. Apologies if I've displayed total ignorance on this - I am not a big forums contributor, overall, and am woefully unfamiliar with how some of these set-ups might operate. Hoping to be able to find some way to communicate in a higher-population venue, as our latest issues have had some really interesting moments that positively highlight the game-engine's range of GM/player options. Hopefully in communication soon.

--Black Talon (talk) 10:33, 14 May 2021 (EDT)

Hmm, I don't know of any ICONS groups on MeWe other than mine, and while we don't have a lot of activity there have been posts this week. The link to mine is on the Important Links page here on the wiki, so click that and see what you find. If you try posting it should then tell me there's a new member with a post that needs approval. Also if you try messaging the owner it should reach me with no problem.

--Blue Lightning (talk) 23:38, 14 May 2021 (EDT)

Blue Lightning - we've definitely turned this thread into the longest topic on the board, but all thanks for the direction on this. I'll see where the link goes and if there's any way a message can get posted and an actual multi-person discussion started on this topic. Again, all appreciations.

--Black Talon (talk) 09:58, 19 May 2021 (EDT)

Love the new additions!
Blue Lightning - and presuming it was your work behind this - THANK YOU for the multi-suit poker hand of sites arranged below the intro on the Main page! Pretty much all of these are topics and/or points I'd like to have a look at in the near future; once again, an ICONS-related reason has been added into my wanting to have a visit over to this page and, quite likely, start up topics that address some of the issues. All thanks.

As a quick by-the-way, I am still unable to make a post on the MeWe site; I have, through your link here, found the actual discussion - and appreciations for that - but again, there seems to be absolutely no way to actually put something down. All of this may be a consequence of refusing to do the $5.00-per-month contribution thing, as I am listed as a "visitor", but at least the direction to the desired point has been clarified.

One final point: that "animation" at the bottom right is violating core ICONS rules on exhaustion; the young lady featured should be able to maintain flight for Strength X 10 pages before she quits and visits the nearest gas station to pick up that re-energizing Hershey bar. Just trying to maintain game balance here.

--Black Talon (talk) 15:58, 27 May 2021 (EDT)

Main Page: Apparently you have new user SimonJKirby to thank for the massive addition to the main page, as well as over a hundred additions and changes he's made since joining four days ago on May 25. He may be a previous user with a new account. Either that or he's using a familiar template.

MeWe: I just don't get it. Haven't heard anyone else with the problems you're having there, so I don't know where to point you for help. Maybe try joining again with a different email address? I can only imagine you made some mis-click when joining or there was something going wrong with MeWe that day, and for whatever reason you're stuck with it for that account.

Animation: I see what you did there. :-)

--Blue Lightning (talk) 14:21, 29 May 2021 (EDT)

Homemade GM screen
Already put this on MeWe (secret identity revealed at last...I...I feel like less of a man...), and hoping that any who missed that particular post can do something with the work in question here. This is drawn entirely from the Assembled Edition, and is being offered as a total public service, for what it's worth. Use, abuse, alter, bend, fold, spindle or mutilate as desired. Hope this helps out.

file:///C:/Users/pabag/AppData/Local/Temp/ICONS%20GM%20screen%20PDF.pdf

--Black Talon (talk) 23:10, 15 June 2021 (EDT)

New additions, with more on the way
Hi, Everyone!

After a long hiatus from ICONS, I'm doing a total overhaul of my old materials and updating them. The first is finally posting my set of "Ultimate Alliance" versions of various Marvel characters, starting with my favorite X-Men and going from there. I've also started finally converting various Champions heroes and foes, starting with a badly needed update to the Exterminators featured in the Champions 4th Edition sourcebook, Alien Enemies.

Hope that you like these new additions and conversions...more are on the way! --Fdw3773 (talk) 19:15, 20 June 2021 (EDT)

Fdw3773, after an extended break - and there were a few times that I did wonder, "Hm - where the heck did Fdw3773 go? Lost interest in the game?  Found a discussion forum that suited him better? - it's wonderful to see you back here.  As I've stated previously, I'm a big adherent of Gary Gygax's thesis, "Books [in this case comic] are books; games are games," and thus I'd be unlikely to actually use any published characters, DC, Marvel or otherwise in a game, but I think that doing a game-engine translation - and thus allowing GMs and players the chance to copy and/or bounce off of an established character's attributes/powers/specialties/qualities - is excellent.  Looking forward to the upcoming submissions and whatever discussion might arise off of that.

--Black Talon (talk) 02:51, 21 June 2021 (EDT)

Thanks, Black Talon! My table-top gaming focuses on the local game conventions when in-person gaming resumes down the road where players arrive and select pre-generated characters across the DC and Marvel Universe, especially when for most, this is their first time ever playing an RPG. This is why the overwhelming majority of my postings have been conversions and not my own creations.

Sadly, the main reason why I haven't been on this forum was that I was one of the primary caregivers for my wife's 13-month cancer fight that began in late January 2020 and ended in late February 2021. ICONS was a game that we played regularly in a campaign that I ran from April to November 2019, so revitalizing energy into this project has rekindled some happy memories of us as our family heals one day at a time. --Fdw3773 (talk) 05:50, 21 June 2021 (EDT)

Fdw3773, my deepest apologies for my ignorant conduct with regard to questioning your absence. I can only express my most heartfelt condolences for you, your wife, and the friends and family that she counted as the central parts of her life. I, and countless others, have seen loved ones go through this nightmare and I know that anything I imagine or express will not even touch the reality of what you and your wife went through. At the very least, she had you by her side with the gift of your unending care, compassion and love. My greatest wishes, hopes and confidences for the future, and anticipations that we will get to see you online again on a more regular basis.

On a completely irrelevant note, I do, after your detailing of the situation, understand why you'd be using established character conversions for new players; they're going to want something familiar to work off of, obviously, and ICONS is simple, straight-forward and fast-paced enough to allow pen-and-paper RPG newbies to join in with minimal adaptation. This is in direct contravention of a number of RPGs I'm familiar with, superhero and otherwise, that seem to make a core philosophy out of the axiom, "Complicated equals better." Looking forward to your upcoming submissions, and again, wonderful to see you back.

--Black Talon (talk) 14:49, 21 June 2021 (EDT)

Hi, Black Talon! Thank you for your kinds words of support. No apologies were necessary, but thank you. What you asked yourself during my hiatus was perfectly reasonable and not out of ignorance. Even when we were actively playing ICONS a long while back, I wasn't visiting this forum or posting as often as before. --Fdw3773 (talk) 19:22, 21 June 2021 (EDT)

So sorry to hear about your wife's illness and passing. How horrible on its own, and all the worse to have to deal with that in 2020 with the pandemic making everything so much harder and more dangerous.

--Blue Lightning (talk) 01:55, 19 July 2021 (EDT)